VN Ren'Py Completed Turning the Page [v1.0.0] [Azienda]

[Filipis]

We don't get many games where MC is the main reason why relationship falls apart because people don't really like that. I'm indifferent but I've certainly seen all the complains Edge of got. I think in netorare people want to see MC as victim. MC as being the guilty party is something that happens in netorase turn into netorare.

FMC ending up in relationship with bull is quite common in netorare, I'm not sure what is the issue here.

We all got our preferences that's fine but the topic was innovation. romance in ntr is not innovative, its just not popular.

The FMC ends up in a sub-dom relationship with the bull, but it's not a "happy ever after" nor is it a romantic ending in the slightest. That's one of the key factors I think is missing in most NTR endings.

In the end, I suppose you are correct in that romance in NTR paths isn't really popular. Which begs the question of why people dare complain about NTR tropes being overused, when those same tropes are what sells? One answer is: not the same people, but that just feels like a non-answer & cop-out...

 

[Terix3]

The FMC ends up in a sub-dom relationship with the bull, but it's not a "happy ever after" nor is it a romantic ending in the slightest. That's one of the key factors I think is missing in most NTR endings.

In the end, I suppose you are correct in that romance in NTR paths isn't really popular. Which begs the question of why people dare complain about NTR tropes being overused, when those same tropes are what sells? One answer is: not the same people, but that just feels like a non-answer & cop-out...

For sure it is difficult to make sense out of the all complaining people do. That is why saying what you want is far more valuable than saying what you don't want. But often enough people don't even know what they want - I would question if that is a group worth listening to.

 

[Miriada]

If they weren't working together there would be no game, since she's a spy. What would be the game about, the girl infiltrating and the husband staying at home? Or working somewhere else? How do you even make netorare in a setting like that?

You could totally make it work: Heroine coming back home every day or staying in contact with the MMC long-distance while keeping her cover, slowly changing without the poor guy being able to understand why, or intervene...

But if they're spying together the bull has ample opportunity to rub it right in the MMC's face and he can't say a thing, I'm betting that's gonna be a huge part of this one.

 

[Nefurien]

You could totally make it work: Heroine coming back home every day or staying in contact with the MMC long-distance while keeping her cover, slowly changing without the poor guy being able to understand why, or intervene...

But if they're spying together the bull has ample opportunity to rub it right in the MMC's face and he can't say a thing, I'm betting that's gonna be a huge part of this one.

I think the game would be pretty short with only calls and long-distance scenes though, or have way less focus on the male pov to balance things out.

 

[xcalibar4]

FMC ending up in relationship with bull is quite common in netorare, I'm not sure what is the issue here.

We all got our preferences that's fine but the topic was innovation. romance in ntr is not innovative, its just not popular.

I think it is one of the main and most common ending in NTR games. Just TtP expanded it more, tried to make normalize it more though there is hint of sadism in it (Sophie totally forgetting about her 1st love & husband and Zack still sending videos to Felix even after 5 years).

One thing I hated most in all rushed endings is the absolute worst character which is Amy in my opinion didn't get any karma. I couldn't put my finger why I hate her in "Alone" ending, her apology always seemed hollow to me there and after mostly reading through other routes now I know. She is absolutely worst character as friend to both Felix and Sophie.

 

[MilkyWay5]

Now that the game is finished I must say it was pretty disappointing. Fundamentally I just don't think the male/female perspective is a good idea. The wife perspective doesn't hit quite as hard because you don't see it from the POV of the character that is getting NTR'd and there is no mystery element at all, and on the other hand the husband path in this game is just incredibly slow and boring, it doesn't have nearly enough engaging NTR content. It need more text messages, sounds, little clues in dialogue and so on to keep it interesting. There's lots of sections where you play workplace simulator for 20-30 min on the Felix path with nothing happening at all, it makes you want to start skipping or quit the game. Maybe the author does it for "realism" but who cares really it's a fictional story anyway let's just assume the husband is distracted/clueless and that's it.

What the other big NTR games (like Henteria, SAO and so on) do instead is a "partial" POV and "full" POV, essentially you always play from the guy's perspective but you can choose the amount of information that you're getting, it can be done through a gallery system for example, you get little clues that a sex scene happened and you can choose to go into the gallery to watch it or not.

I don't know what the dev is planning for the next game but I really hope they ditch the male POV/female POV concept because it's really bad, there's a reason why the good NTR games out there don't use that.

 

[Terix3]

Now that the game is finished I must say it was pretty disappointing. Fundamentally I just don't think the male/female perspective is a good idea. The wife perspective doesn't hit quite as hard because you don't see it from the POV of the character that is getting NTR'd and there is no mystery element at all, and on the other hand the husband path in this game is just incredibly slow and boring, it doesn't have nearly enough engaging NTR content. It need more text messages, sounds, little clues in dialogue and so on to keep it interesting. There's lots of sections where you play workplace simulator for 20-30 min on the Felix path with nothing happening at all, it makes you want to start skipping or quit the game. Maybe the author does it for "realism" but who cares really it's a fictional story anyway let's just assume the husband is distracted/clueless and that's it.

What the other big NTR games (like Henteria, SAO and so on) do instead is a "partial" POV and "full" POV, essentially you always play from the guy's perspective but you can choose the amount of information that you're getting, it can be done through a gallery system for example, you get little clues that a sex scene happened and you can choose to go into the gallery to watch it or not.

I don't know what the dev is planning for the next game but I really hope they ditch the male POV/female POV concept because it's really bad, there's a reason why the good NTR games out there don't use that.

Except there are people like myself that prefer FMC pov.
MC pov by definition of this type of netorare will be devoid of scenes, those games also don't have them, you watch them in gallery . What people tend to do in TPP is alternate between povs. If you want you can play via MC pov and then watch the scenes from FMC pov /just skip text until scene/.
I think it can be done that MC pov would unlock relevant scenes on FMC pov, then you would have exact same experience like the other games.

 

[Iexist]

There's no "ideal way" to write a NTR VN if we're being honest here. Different people want different things from the genre at the end of the day.

People like me, who are usually more interested in the corruption part of the genre, prefer the female perspective above all others, but there's worth in the cuck's perspective too, if only because it helps showcase the effects of the corruption, the consequences of the wrong choices involved. For all that TtP's Corruption is pretty mild (and the more corrupt route isn't all that deeply explored), Felix's perspective, particularly in the Ending 2 branch, does a great job of showcasing consequences. Even if they're quite self inflicted, which is part of the reason why the corruption in TtP is very mild.

Still, for me, if Felix's perspective was removed entirely, and we just had Sophie's PoV, it'd still be an excellent NTR VN. I can't say the same for the reverse though. Felix's perspective just doesn't work on its own... at least, as a dedicated hentai work. There isn't even a single properly complete scene that he's forced to watch at any given point.

I think the completely separate PoVs can work, but there needs to be a more organic way of switching between said PoVs and maybe something to make said switching clear as the intended flow. Alternately, making it so the different PoVs also have a number of different scenes to them can also help. Like that one short vid with that woman that looked like Sophie that Felix finds. Would've been interested if they expanded on that and there was a whole branch of smut that only Felix saw in addition to the near run-ins with Sophie getting fucked by Zack. It would have given the PoV in question more impact in the sexy-times department, and it'd have also muddled the waters for the mystery angle that TtP is supposed to have.

Because let's face it, as things currently stand, there's basically no mystery at all when there's only one bull with one very obvious accomplice and a very obvious progression of events.

 

[Terix3]

Because let's face it, as things currently stand, there's basically no mystery at all when there's only one bull with one very obvious accomplice and a very obvious progression of events.

The obvious solution is to increase number of actors but then you run into another problem - expectations. When people see characters with art they build expectation that those characters will get scenes, will be of significance for the story etc. And we know how it goes then : complains about false advertising, scamming, 1 star reviews ...
I think often enough devs are afraid to give art to side characters or purposefully make them super ugly /only works for female characters/ for that very reason.

 

[Iexist]

The obvious solution is to increase number of actors but then you run into another problem - expectations. When people see characters with art they build immediate expectation that those characters will get scenes, will be of significance for the story etc. I think often enough devs are afraid to give art to side characters or purposefully make them super ugly /only works for female characters/ for that very reason.

Well, that IS an option. I admit that seeing Brooks and Nate made me wonder if perhaps either of them were going to be involved with Sophie, but I didn't really have an expectation for that. At the end of the day, Nate is quickly removed from the list as an obvious nice guy, and Brooks just doesn't show up enough in the right way. Not to mention that the VN's description explicitly calls out Zack, basically...

If they just had a development cycle and released the VN in one go, rather than bit by bit monthly, it could easily be a pretty great solution. It wouldn't allow people to develop expectations of the characters and they'd just experience the story in one go. The way I did when I picked it up. So I wasn't particularly disappointed by the fact that various side-characters have very limited involvement in the smut or NTR. They played their parts as supporting characters properly. They didn't really need to stand in the spotlight for an extended period of time.

The Patreon model of making a game in pieces like this causes a lot of problems all on its own tbh. It causes people to experience the content in bite sized pieces and that completely changes the overall experience.

It's why I personally don't intend to even touch a single build of the next VN until it's done. Not unless I have a very good reason for it. (Though Luna's looks are definitely tempting given certain fetishes of mine...) I'm definitely glad that I held off on TtP until it was done, because I feel like the complete experience is much better than taking it in bit by bit. VNs just aren't build for that unless you deliberately make them in a monthly chapter format like normal written fiction, and that's not very feasible tbh.

 

[Terix3]

Well, that IS an option. I admit that seeing Brooks and Nate made me wonder if perhaps either of them were going to be involved with Sophie, but I didn't really have an expectation for that. At the end of the day, Nate is quickly removed from the list as an obvious nice guy, and Brooks just doesn't show up enough in the right way. Not to mention that the VN's description explicitly calls out Zack, basically...

If they just had a development cycle and released the VN in one go, rather than bit by bit monthly, it could easily be a pretty great solution. It wouldn't allow people to develop expectations of the characters and they'd just experience the story in one go. The way I did when I picked it up. So I wasn't particularly disappointed by the fact that various side-characters have very limited involvement in the smut or NTR. They played their parts as supporting characters properly. They didn't really need to stand in the spotlight for an extended period of time.

The Patreon model of making a game in pieces like this causes a lot of problems all on its own tbh. It causes people to experience the content in bite sized pieces and that completely changes the overall experience.

It's why I personally don't intend to even touch a single build of the next VN until it's done. Not unless I have a very good reason for it. (Though Luna's looks are definitely tempting given certain fetishes of mine...) I'm definitely glad that I held off on TtP until it was done, because I feel like the complete experience is much better than taking it in bit by bit. VNs just aren't build for that unless you deliberately make them in a monthly chapter format like normal written fiction, and that's not very feasible tbh.

Yea absolutely the patreon format and need for gradual updates introduce plenty of issues. But I think it effects VNs the least and as long the development goes along one story line its not too bad experiencing it gradually. RPGMs are horrible by comparison saves get broken all the time and there is no to fast forward, devs need to provide saves for new content but if the game features many variables than there is no way to get to that same state you were without playing again.