Change my mind: NTR

[Ataios]

I mostly disagree with the basic assumption of the thread. This is because, it is assumed that every player identifies with or relates to the protagonist of a porn games, which is certainly not true. A player may simply like the sex scenes of a game or might hate the protagonist, so likes to see him destroyed. I think to enjoy NTR involving a man stealing a woman from another man as a fetish requires a player to feel at least a certain kind attraction to men, but wether this is sadistic or masochistic or neither can not be said. On the other hand a player may enjoy the idea of the woman being turned into a slut without being attracted to the men. So I think, a male player enjoying NTR as a fetish is either sadistic straight or sadistic or masochistic gay/bi but only maybe and not necessarily into a cuck fetish. Personally I dislike NTR, for me it's neither a fetish nor a story concept I could enjoy.

 

[Fliptoynk]

Assuming is really the mudda of awl fuckups...
Anyways, looking at the ts' wall of text for intro, they don't look assumptions to me. He mentioned many perspectives anyway so I think he's doing his hardest to be fair for everyone. Dunno what's the end game tho...

If Imma ntr fan, what then? I love my Juana but her beauty maintenance is wearing me out an I dunno if my lil coca farm could still foot the bills in the long run. Sometimes, I even say for myself "sure, make yerself pretty... How can I sell used goods without refurbishing it and if someone grabs you, bam! Hasta manyana pepito she's yours I'm off the hook"

 

[obibobi]

I mostly disagree with the basic assumption of the thread. This is because, it is assumed that every player identifies with or relates to the protagonist of a porn games, which is certainly not true. A player may simply like the sex scenes of a game or might hate the protagonist, so likes to see him destroyed. I think to enjoy NTR involving a man stealing a woman from another man as a fetish requires a player to feel at least a certain kind attraction to men, but wether this is sadistic or masochistic or neither can not be said. On the other hand a player may enjoy the idea of the woman being turned into a slut without being attracted to the men. So I think, a male player enjoying NTR as a fetish is either sadistic straight or sadistic or masochistic gay/bi but only maybe and not necessarily into a cuck fetish. Personally I dislike NTR, for me it's neither a fetish nor a story concept I could enjoy.

The issue with this is that it goes against the intent of the genre. You being unable to identify with the protagonist or the writer just being bad mean doesn't really change what is intended. Like a comedy that you don't laugh at, it doesn't change that people watch comedies to be amused.

The purpose of NTR games is for the people to feel sexual jealousy

The player who plays a game to see a wife cheat on her husband and be degraded, then an NTR game is not what they are after.

I've seen people say they don't like this type of NTR, a game where the protagonist was made to feel like a loser. It shows that some people don't understand that is what NTR is.

 

[desmosome]

Good thing we have these enlightened individuals to inform us that we are consuming our porn in a wrong way. I was searching for NTR mangas to see females falling so much into depravity that they abandon their loved ones. I guess I was wrong and should stop searching for NTR mangas since, apparently, I am not a NTR fan.

Or how about you guys don't babble on about things you don't even fully understand?

 

[BrokenDreams]

Good thing we have these enlightened individuals to inform us that we are consuming our porn in a wrong way. I was searching for NTR mangas to see females falling so much into depravity that they abandon their loved ones. I guess I was wrong and should stop searching for NTR mangas since, apparently, I am not a NTR fan.

Couldn't have said any better, some people just doesn't understand that there are many players who likes ntr for the female perspective.

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

I want to clarify something about Cuckoldry. It's a colloquial term based on the Cuckoo bird, who drops his egg into another bird's nest which then hatches, grows bigger than the other smaller and usually weaker birds, and in a truly brutal and cold manner forces the parents of the original offspring to divert energy and caregiving away from the biological offspring. 9 times of out the 10 the original offspring die of starvation or are crushed to death by the much bigger Cuckoo chick. There is also the little known malicious element of the Cuckoo chick, in which if there are other chicks inhabiting the nest already, as soon as the Cuckoo is large enough, it will remorselessly eject any competing chicks out of the nest where if it doesn't die of starvation, it will be eaten by a roaming predator soon after...
This implies that Cuckoldry is NOT based solely on cheating spouses and the thievery of affection. It is mostly based on a monogamous male being tricked into raising a child that isn't his. I think there needs to be a new term created for men who derive pleasure from having their wife impregnated by another man in order for him to raise it himself. To conclude, there is no Cuckoldry without pregnancy, and anything else is simply another form of masochism, which is a broader term for someone who enjoys humiliation and denigration by a sadistic person. Cuckoldry is very specific in its application when it comes to social and sexual relationships and I really wish people would stop perverting it in order to make the term more accessible.
It's fun calling a soyboy a cuck once in a while, but it needs to stop.

 

[Fliptoynk]

In short, it's momma's baby, daddy's maybe. And in the real cuckoldry, the mc is clueless shit ok noted.

 

[fauxplayer]

It seems like every "Let's Figure Out NTR?!" thread turns into this:

 

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Cuckoldry is very specific in its application when it comes to social and sexual relationships and I really wish people would stop perverting it in order to make the term more accessible.
It's fun calling a soyboy a cuck once in a while, but it needs to stop.

You're entirely correct but language and slang are entirely organic things that quickly shift and morph to convey whatever ideas a speaker wishes to communicate. A dictionary might clearly state that a cock is a male chicken (Rooster), but the word is most often used to refer to the male genitalia; cuck nowadays is used to refer generally to men that enjoy others having sex with their partners or to disparagingly imply someone is effeminate or weak-willed enough to let such a thing occur.

Personally when I see NTR tags I immediately steer clear. Doing so saves time and frustration for me and for the people that enjoy NTR.

 

[Freudian Iconoclast]

You're entirely correct but language and slang are entirely organic things that quickly shift and morph to convey whatever ideas a speaker wishes to communicate. A dictionary might clearly state that a cock is a male chicken (Rooster), but the word is most often used to refer to the male genitalia; cuck nowadays is used to refer generally to men that enjoy others having sex with their partners or to disparagingly imply someone is effeminate or weak-willed enough to let such a thing occur.

Personally when I see NTR tags I immediately steer clear. Doing so saves time and frustration for me and for the people that enjoy NTR.

Yes, and it's this out of bounds characterization that leads us all down a slippery slope. At least with a body part, you can forgive misuse because it isn't necessarily a misappropriation or lazy slang. But when you start to use a very specific term to convey any given situation involving the alienation of affection or "love", then it can put things in an ambiguous territory. NTR isn't necessarily cuckoldry since it doesn't always involve pregnancy and the raising of subsequent offspring, and they are not always synonymous.

 

[Fliptoynk]

Why not? Both involves masochism and enabling monkey branching. Pregnancy will eventually happen overtime.

Edit:
Ok ok...
Netorare - the mc is unwilling to be cucked.
Netorase = cuckoldry, a willing cuck
Netori = bull

Smh...

 

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Yes, and it's this out of bounds characterization that leads us all down a slippery slope. At least with a body part, you can forgive misuse because it isn't necessarily a misappropriation or lazy slang. But when you start to use a very specific term to convey any given situation involving the alienation of affection or "love", then it can put things in an ambiguous territory. NTR isn't necessarily cuckoldry since it doesn't always involve pregnancy and the raising of subsequent offspring, and they are not always synonymous.

Ah, I see what you mean now. There is a technical difference between the two definitions, I should have read your first post a bit more closely. I will say though that I think linguistic corruption is essentially an unstoppable process. I'm sure something else will replace the term "cuck" sooner or later as well.

Why not? Both involves masochism and enabling monkey branching. Pregnancy will eventually happen overtime.

Edit:
Ok ok...
Netorare - the mc is unwilling to be cucked.
Netorase = cuckoldry, a willing cuck
Netori = bull

Smh...

Gah, masochism and monkey branching give me the squicks. Must be some part of my lizard brain that abhors the idea of genetic uncertainty. On the flip side I'm immensely curious if some genetic sorcery is responsible for those of us that enjoy NTR, cuckoldry, etc.

 

[Fliptoynk]

Well, that's a tough one to crack. Even scientists don't have concrete ideas what causes paraphilia other than theories and observations on what the poor sobs got in common like, personality and anxiety disorders. Maybe from childhood abuse, dope, or both.

 

[BlackFoxSamaki]

Well, that's a tough one to crack. Even scientists don't have concrete ideas what causes paraphilia other than theories and observations on what the poor sobs got in common like, personality and anxiety disorders. Maybe from childhood abuse, dope, or both.

So many years living with our bodies and it still seems like we hardly understand them! Not for lack of trying mind you, I'm certain there are many people vigorously plumbing the depths of the human body for its ancient secrets.


( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[polywog]

The main character of a NTR story can not be jealous, principally because he's either blindly in love (and so think that it's just a phase, that she'll come back soon), or think so low about himself that, for him, he deserve to be treated like this. Both being states of mind that prevent him to feel jealousy.

You contradict yourself. Jealousy = Envy
Self-esteem. To compare your self to others.

 

[Fliptoynk]

No jealousy? I dun think so... Subs are also masochist, and jealousy + self-despair makes them cum I've watched a short doc video about the sf cuck club. one of'em received a footage from his wife and they were watching happily at 1st then the hubby cried bitterly smh

 

[paust.alex]

One particular game I enjoyed was a swinging game where protagonist and wife try to "help" a couple that they live with after disaster struck them get back their sex life. During a certain route the wife cheats the protagonist and you have the option to dumb the shit out of her. Best scene ever after to see her cheating and cucking you to her begging you to forgive her after getting a shock that you proposed divorce. The author played with our emotions to the brim.

Name of the game pls.

 

[slackster]

Name of the game pls.

I think it's this one:

Kabe no Mukou no Tsuma no Koe 2 or 壁の向こうの妻の嬌声こえ２

Well worth a play through to try and get the best ending where all 4 are happy (it's hard to get though)

I'ts a 30hr game though- longer if you need to translate it through VNR - torrent can be found on anime-sharing

 

[215303j]

On topic:
I think avoidable NTR is a great plot driver.
Eric was by far the most memorable character of Big Brother.
Getting finally rid of him was very satisfying but also killed the game.

Same in e.g. Babysitter, although the NTR threat is lower and more easily avoidable.

Unavoidable NTR, on the other hand, is something I usually avoid. (funny paradox, right?)
In the right game, it can be interesting, on the same level as watching a train wreck: you know it'll go horribly wrong but you keep watching anyway.
But I simply cannot stand unavoidable NTR in a game where I identify and/or sympathise with the characters (MC and/or LI). That is instant delete for me.

Maybe I'm just oversimplifying things, but in my view:
cuck = weak
cheater = whore
And I can't identify with either.

I want to clarify something about Cuckoldry.

See here:
https://f95zone.to/threads/what-is-cuckolding.20634/
Basically I agree with you, but apparently the meaning changed.

Off topic:

How can incest be seen as being about power ?

Because you are changing an existing relationship into something else.

Especially in the case of parent-child incest, there is clearly a power dynamic.
A son fucking his mother becomes "the man of the house".
A father fucking his daughter completely "owns" her, and is not "giving her away" to some future husband.

In the case of sibling incest, the power dynamic is different as there is no party which is naturally stronger, but there is often still a form of rivalry, which gets an additional dimension because of the incest.

 

[polywog]

The game:
The girl you like won't give you the time of day.
You worship the ground she walks on, despite her putting you in the friend-zone.
Every Friday you cash your paycheck, and run over to her apartment building and show her the receipt where you paid her rent for her. She doesn't invite you in because her roommate has the flu and she doesn't want you to get sick, but she lets you lick her boot, and you can almost imagine seeing her panties a little bit while you're down there.

This goes on for a few years. Your co-workers see what's going on, but you're blind to the situation.
Your co-workers have tried to set you up with other girls, but you aren't interested, you're in love with what's her name.
They have told you that her roommate is a man, and even shown you pictures of him, but you don't care, she's the love of your life.

So one day your co-workers decide to do you a favor and NTR you. On Friday you pay her rent as usual and you go to lick some boot, but this time her door is open. You think this is your lucky day, first time ever you walk in to her apartment.
You walk around looking at her stuff, hmm for someone struggling to pay her bills, she sure has a lot of nice things (you live with your landlady, and don't even have furniture because you give away all your money) you hear noises coming from the bedroom area. You hear "oh god... oh god" and you think she's in trouble, you forget all about your boner and you burst into the room to rescue her. You freeze in shock... you've never seen a real naked girl before, except in porn, but this isn't just any old porn star, this is the love of your life's breast bouncing all over the place while she's getting plowed by 4 guys wearing the same company uniform as you. You immediately self-insert and begin to watch as your cocks simultaneously pleasure all her holes like you've always imagined. Your pants are the wettest they've ever been, ans your co-workers finish jizzing on her one by one. They leave, and you rush in to cuddle with her... finally!